Discussion with younger brother of HHDL and D. Meyer on consciousness and computers

Tuesday, April 28th, 2009

David Meyer talks about conscious machines with Tendzin Choegyal:

an intriguing question arose during the meeting concerning the possibility for an evolution of “consciousness” in machines/computers. The younger brother of HHDL, Tendzin Choegyal disagreed with David Meyer’s suggestion that machines will (and have been already) progressively evolve to develop their own form of consciousness. It is an interesting topic of discussion and this conversation was only a small sound bite of a larger debate that occurred.

Young Scientists’ Perspective on Benefits of Dialogue with HHDL

Tuesday, April 28th, 2009

Mind and Life has been organizing dialogues between top scientists and His Holiness The Dalai Lama for 20+ years. The purpose of which has been to promote the creation of a contemplative, compassionate, and rigorous experimental and experiential science of the mind which could guide and inform medicine, neuroscience, psychology, education and human development. An initial interest of Mind and Life has been to facilitate the generation of a new field of “mind science”, using contemplative practice as the root of investigation. Since 2004, there has been an annual week long “Summer Research Institute” that has brought together junior and senior-level scientists, Buddhist Scholars, Tibetan Monks and other contemplative practitioners from multiple faiths and traditions. The SRI has been a breeding ground for young neuroscientists, psychologists, and clinicians interested in the scientific investigation of contemplative practice. Here are 3 videos of young scientists who have been involved in re-defining their program of research to integrate the study of contemplative practice in terms of clinical science, developmental science and neuroscience.

Sona Dimidjian:

Robert Roeser:

David Vago:

Sensation, Feeling, Image, Talk

Thursday, April 23rd, 2009

Dear friends,

One of the enduring discussions of the meeting for me has been the “levels of processing” discussion between Buddhism and Modern science. There was a long series of conversations about different levels of experience and their inter-relations- those strands of phenomenal experience coming through the body and the senses, the emotions, cognition, and attention/awareness.  This was related to the “binding problem” in psychology in which the existence of distributed processing of (visual) stimuli in different parts of the brain raises the issues of how these features get “bound together” into the stimulus object. An interesting discussion was how concepts provide such binding of features to an object in Tibetan Buddhist thinking, whereas Anne Treismann discussed attention as serving this “binding role.”  Of course, attention is directed by mental representations that are activated in situations as well, so there is a feed-forward and feed-back cycle here. What is attention like came up as a question?  Is it like a glue or fixative of some sort?

 

In our own work on self, and in developmental psychology, the notion of sensory-affective schemas, motor schemas, and later different levels of iconic and symbolic representation seems very related here.  It seems that when it comes to levels of information processing and self, the evidence suggests only “There ain’t one!”

roeser-peck-2009-education-in-awareness

 

A related line of discussion really related to the issue of “at what level does conceptualization” come in to organize sensory-perceptual-affective input?  As the scientists noted, even at the level of the retina there is a gross categorization of stimuli via rods and cones; emotions implicity attune attention, and categorization is automatic for previously encountered stimuli (e.g., native language). Thus, the scientists described the notion of perception-emotion-cognition as separable elements as increasingly untenable at certain levels.

Why this focus on separating these constituents of consciousness?  This is at the core of mindfulness practice and leads to a deconstruction of the seeming solidity of mental objects and mental life.  The self itself, of course, is composed of feelings, images and talk so learning to discriminate these objects in consciousness is also related to the soteriological aims of uprooting the troublesome tendencies of ego (attachment, desire, delusion) in the direction of enlightenment.
Here is a heuristic of what was discussed translated into my ideas on self, mindfulness as the development of skills associated with attentional stability and sensitivity, and the teachings of Shinzen Young: 

two-levels-of-mental-experience

The Physical Place

Thursday, April 16th, 2009

Dear friends,

To give you a sense of the physical surroundings, I start with far off shots of the temple and the meeting space. The temple is the large yellow complex. Above the temple you can (barely) see a green roof and to its right a silver roof. It was in this part of the complex the meeting took place. I present pictures from that roof, and then give you a sense of the room inside. Enjoy.

best-palace1

lightening-1

 

 

View from Roof (Welcome by Vago)

View from Roof (Welcome by Vago)

 

Backdrop (!)

Backdrop (!)

Inside the Meeting Room

Inside the Meeting Room

adam-hhdl

Dialogue

Dialogue

room-4

Cultivation of Compassion

Wednesday, April 15th, 2009

HHDL had an excellent commentary on the cultivation of compassion.

He said that it depends on the 3rd deepest level of suffering. (I am not sure what the 1st two stages of suffering refer to). This stage of suffering is linked with a profound aspiration to achieve liberation and a fundamental vulnerability to suffering with mental afflictions (e.g., grasping).

My own take is that the practice of compassion is useless without the knowledge of this “root of suffering”. This is referred to as wisdom. Like the dorje with the bell, they must be practiced together with a sense of courage and strong feeling of concern.

Reflections on developments of Shamatha and distinction between concept and non-conceptual levels of mental experience

Wednesday, April 15th, 2009

During the development of Shamatha, Alan Wallace describes 9 stages of development in which the quality and nature of mental activity changes. We are all familiar with the “monkey mind” and the sleepy mind that plague the meditator on the cushion. The monkey in our mind is a metaphor for what our mind does when we sit with our eyes closed and our mind is flooded with thoughts that continually arise and we follow the thoughts like a monkey jumping from limb to limb, from concept to concept, from retrospective to prospective memory, to ruminative like  behavior. We are also plagued with qualities of laxity when we sit on the cushion, such that we tire easily and fail to see things clearly, or the vastness of reality. The adept will cultivate a decrease in excitation (reduction of the monkey mind) and decrease in laxity as they progress through the stages of shamatha. By the 8th stage of shamatha, mental activity at the conceptual level is decreased significantly and refinement (sharpening) of perception is increased.

For example, when there is an arising of a cognitive event, Buddhist science speaks of 5 mental factors that are present:

1. volition (direction to the object)

2. attention (selction/engagement of the object)

3. Contact (perception and cognition fuse)

4. Discrimination (cognitive event is distinguished from something else)

5. Feeling (sensory experience of pleasure/pain is converted to more abstract feeling)

Alan also spoke of 4 different types of intelligence to deal with these 5 mental factors:

1. vast, 2. clear (vivid), 3. swift, and 4. Penetrating intelligence

The discussion that ensued in response to the 5 mental factors anf 4 types of intelligence appeared to suggest that as the practitioner moves through the stages of shamatha, attention becomes very vast in nature as is described in nirguna awareness or by some as turiya, a restful state of undistracted, nonspecific awareness that has no author. This cultivated state of awareness involves increased levels of clarity and vividness for each concept or arising cognitive event,  a perceptual acuity that is fast to react and is able to be sharp in its integration of all available stimuli and becomes free of mnemonic bias and/or distortion. At the point in which mental activity is developed to a 8th stage of Shamatha, evaluative judgements disapear, there is no grasping of any particular concept, and perception is acute.

Perceptual acuity happens to be something that the Shamatha project (with Cliff Saron) actually measured 5 months post-retreat. Preliminary results suggest that perceptual acuity may improve and be sustained as long as practice persists.

HHDL pointed out that a well-trained mind at this stage may be able to begin to become aware of subtle forms of energy (from vajrayana/tantrayama), channel such energy with intention and create change/movement of such energy at a single point in one’s body. He also said that it may take 4 hrs. of continued single-pointed concentration to reach this point. :)

HHDL also pointed out that even his own practice on Shunyata (emptiness) involves conceptual processing, before the non-conceptual vastness arises. He continued to break down conceptualization of an act into 3 components:

1. an object of the action

2. the act itself

3. the Agent

At a conceptual level, there is a distinction that needs to be made, but over time and in some contexts, all 3 components may be one and the same.

Roshi Joan Halifax Reflections on Conference

Tuesday, April 14th, 2009

Dear friends,

To see some more post-conference reflections, please visit:

http://www.upaya.org/newsletter/view/2009/04/13

A few more comments on the week

Saturday, April 11th, 2009

His holiness spoke of the lifeforce within us all, referred to as Jivitindriya and he described it as “the water sustains the lotus flower”. He spoke heavily about cultivating Bodicitta and one thought that arose from the dialogue was a very helpful mantra and form of koan:

Do not reflect ON experience, use reflection as an act of experience.

This Jivitindriya makes the mind “alive” as a lifeforce provides warmth and consciousness and contributes to elements of Bodicitta aiding the practitioner to distinguish between wholesome/meritorious and unwholesome/unmeritorious activity. This comes from the Abhidamma apparently and arises in the practitioner as he/she studies the Abhidamma. The question that arises for me is how such ethical and deep awareness of citta (Pali for mind or consciousness - I’ve heard both translations), its qualities that give it sustenance, and the arising of wholesome/unwholesome categorization contribute to the healthy development of mind and does the failure of development from this domain result in an unhealthy mind or some form of psychopathology?

The discussion that spontaneously generated these ideas came from HHDL commenting on the 7 qualities of initial sensory and subsequent conceptual awareness of an experienced object.

1. Contact

2. Feeling

3. Perception (Sanna) - Making a mark like a Carpenter would on a piece of wood

4. volition (cetana)

5. One-pointedness - The seed of samadhi (where awareness of the object begins)

6. Life

7. Attention (manasikara)

HHDL was asked whether these 7 qualities arise all together instantaneously, he commented that he believed they arise simultaneously, but are more likely to arise in a brief sequence. He continued by explaining this is the process by which the mind is made unlike the previous mind, steering the mind toward an object only. There are 6 further qualities of citta that occur after examining takes place.

Two that were mentioned were Vitakka or “thinking of” the object in which the object is “striked by persistent and deliberate pushing”, then Vicara or “examining” takes place which was described as a “constant rubbing or exploring” of the object.

Lastly, it is Sati which is the remembering or “not forgetting” or losing the object - remembering in the moment as a Guard post for stopping unwholesome thoughts from getting into consciousness.

So..it appears to me in my own translation that if retrospective forms of memory help one develop the mind to move through proper steps of sensation, perception, and categorization of object, then the current working memory will aid in directing that attention in a deliberate wholesome direction that is free of distraction and/or unnecessary mental factors and further directed towards the ultimate nature/awareness of the object with prospective forms of memory.

April 10, 2009

Saturday, April 11th, 2009

Hi all,

The meeting has finished, but the effects are likely to be long-lasting and it may take weeks or months for it all to sink in. That being said, I do plan to keep posting on the site my continued reflections and responding to the active discussion. Thank you all for such a rich discussion. Last night and today, MLI met with a group of Indian scientists to explore a future collaboration. I will comment more soon.

View from Youth

Friday, April 10th, 2009

Cliff Saron’s lovely daughter Rayna has also been blogging and sent her blog address. To get a view of the meeting from youth, please visit!

anamazingindianadventure.blogspot.com

rayna